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Exotic Animal Ban
07-31-2012, 03:24 PM,
#1
Pocs Offline
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Exotic Animal Ban
Where I live they have imposed a ban on all exotic animals. Which includes all non indigenous animals. If you bought or adopted one of the animals on the list prior to the ban they are grandfathered into law, but you better have proof if ever asked, if not they will impose a hefty fine. Degus, sugar gliders, chinchillas and hedgehogs are just a few that made the list.

Should exotic animals be banned for ownership?Bawling
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07-31-2012, 04:19 PM,
#2
Fishbone Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
Well, I'm against any broad bans. If there is specific evidence that there is a danger from certain species, or groups of animals, then they can be dealt with individually. But to say that noone can own any nonnative animal is silly in my opinion. Not to mention, it opens up a much larger black market for such things.
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07-31-2012, 07:26 PM,
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Victor Leigh Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
Is exotic animal defined as non-native animal? That's too broad a definition.

If that's implemented strictly, I would say a lot of cats and dogs would be banned because most breeds of cats and dogs are not native. Let's say you are in the UK. So, as far as the UK is concerned, Shih Tzu dogs and Persian cats are not native animals. Or if you are in the US. Then, as far as the US is concerned, Akita dogs and Sphynx cats are not native animals.

What's the whole idea behind the ban any way?
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07-31-2012, 09:14 PM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(07-31-2012, 03:24 PM)Pocs Wrote: Where I live they have imposed a ban on all exotic animals. Which includes all non indigenous animals. If you bought or adopted one of the animals on the list prior to the ban they are grandfathered into law, but you better have proof if ever asked, if not they will impose a hefty fine. Degus, sugar gliders, chinchillas and hedgehogs are just a few that made the list.

Should exotic animals be banned for ownership?Bawling

WOW! Glad I don't live where you do, I'd have to get rid of at least 6 of my babies (5 chinchillas and a hedgehog)! I don't think that these animals should be banned and don't understand why they even are...I mean my hedgie is so quite that I often forget he's here LOL (not really just a saying) And I had sugar sliders, and they were quiet too...the chins are harmless but not quiet by any standard Dodgy
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07-31-2012, 11:49 PM,
#5
dashboardc33 Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
No, I don't think some of these animals should have been banned. Does it give any reason on why they were banned? I can see if it was an outdoor animal and it posed a safety risk for other families. However, these are indoor animals. I don't think these animals should have ever made the ban list.
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08-01-2012, 06:53 AM,
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Pocs Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
Here is a partial list of what I was sent in the mail. My daughter has degus and at one time sugar gliders, which is why we got it.


Summary of Law: It is unlawful for persons to possess a potentially dangerous species or non indigenous species as a "pet." Potentially dangerous species include the but is not limited to following orders: Primates; Carnivora (nondomestic dogs and cats, bears); Saura (venomous gila monsters); Serpentes (venomous coral snakes, cobras, vipers, pit vipers); Crocodilia (alligators, crocodiles, gavials); Psittaciformes (ring-necked and monk parakeets);Marsupial Infraclass (opossums, wombats, kangaroos, sugar gliders) and Rodentia (prairie dogs, ground squirrels, degus). Zoos and other exhibitors may possess these animals upon showing that specific criteria have been met, such as extensive experience in handling and caring for the animal.

Why some of these animals are on the list, puzzles me. Most of the pet stores in the area, especially the Mom and Dad type, which are the ones I frequent carry and post a extensive list.
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08-01-2012, 08:33 AM,
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Fishbone Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
I think they are on there because the law makers are lazy. They don't want to have to research individual species, so they ban them all.
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08-01-2012, 08:46 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-01-2012, 08:33 AM)Fishbone Wrote: I think they are on there because the law makers are lazy. They don't want to have to research individual species, so they ban them all.

I agree!

Since they know nothing besides drafting the law, shouldn't they always ask experts of each subject for educated opinions before making laws in the related area? Ask a doctor when make laws on the use of medical drugs, ask a building expert when make laws of construction safety, and so on.

It is not that hard to just hire some animal experts when drafting such animal banning law.

There are very few animals on the pet market is native to each area. They are always of different breed if not sub-species. We can't just ban the ownership of all pets, can we? It would be ridiculous. Silly lawmakers lol.
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08-01-2012, 09:27 AM,
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Fishbone Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
Of course not Thor. Then they would have to listen to, and weigh the benefits and negatives of multiple experts arguments. That would leave them at higher risk of criticism, because of the public view of everything, which can be swayed, intentionally or unintentionally, by the media and others.

Since I live in Florida, and keep reptiles, lets take the reptile laws both here, and national laws inspired by the problems here. There is not one shred of scientific evidence I've seen, (& I've spent a good deal of time looking), to suggest that the invasive python problem in the everglades was caused by pet owners releasing their pets. There is a great deal of evidence pointing to the problem being caused by the destruction of warehouses in south florida containing hundreds, if not thousands, of animals during hurricane andrew in 1992. There is actually more evidence pointing to the whacky theory that the army/cia released them in the everglades after testing them during the vietnam war than there its to irresponsible pet owners. But, in most of the bans on the larger python species, "irresponsible ownership" is cited as a major reason. Instead of regulating and inspecting the importers/wholesalers in a better way, they ban ownership of the animals. The importers are still operating the same way now, just with different species.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be regulations, but that they should be brought about in a sane, logical fashion, and should actually address the problems they are trying to fix.
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08-02-2012, 01:28 AM,
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Pocs Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
It all goes back to someone ruining it for everyone else. Myself as week as others I surround myself are animals lovers as a whole. Responsible pet ownership is something we don't take lightly. Do I want to have a tiger in my back yard attached to a lead line, our a alligator housed in the swimming pool. But maybe one day I would like to have another sugar glider. I realize certain regulations need to be in place to protect the public as well as the pet owners, but to totally take away the rights allowing people to own a pet responsiblaly, a pet of their choosing is unfair and like a dictatorship.
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08-02-2012, 01:42 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
here in pennsylvania, all i know is that sugar gliders and hedgehogs are illegal, among other animals that make sense, like tigers and such. but the reason for this being is, they were bringing in soo many hedgehogs from out of the area and they were mingling with natural wildlife, that they put a restriction on them that only hedgehogs born inside the state, by parents from inside the state could be legally kept with paperwork. but the breeders basically said "screw you" to the restriction and kept bringing in new blood, and it made the lawmaker people angry, so now they banned ALL hedgehogs, period. if anyone with authority even finds out about one, it will be put down immediately and the owner fined.

im not so sure why suger gliders were banned though...why would they be considered dangerous?
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08-02-2012, 04:14 AM,
#12
Pocs Offline
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
I have family that live in Pennsylvania and i thought they had also banned degus and Chinchillas as well as some other small pets. Which if true I don't understand the logic behind it or any of the animals you listed on the ban. My family have reduced their pets to strictly dogs and cats and a few livestock animals they treat as pets. Which brings up another point. Many types of farm animals are not indigenious, are they considered exotic. Ostriches, Emus, Alpacas just to name a few. They might not be considered pets, but they can still kill or harm people.
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08-02-2012, 04:20 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-02-2012, 04:14 AM)Pocs Wrote: I have family that live in Pennsylvania and i thought they had also banned degus and Chinchillas as well as some other small pets. Which if true I don't understand the logic behind it or any of the animals you listed on the ban. My family have reduced their pets to strictly dogs and cats and a few livestock animals they treat as pets. Which brings up another point. Many types of farm animals are not indigenious, are they considered exotic. Ostriches, Emus, Alpacas just to name a few. They might not be considered pets, but they can still kill or harm people.

chinchillas are definitely not illegal here, they are all over the place! theres a few breeders in every town at least -.- not sure about the degus though :/ i just want to know whats so harmful about hedgehogs and sugar gliders, when chinchillas are not illegal? you dont even need a permit for them, i have a friend that has them..
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08-02-2012, 04:26 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-02-2012, 01:42 AM)amanda509 Wrote: here in pennsylvania, all i know is that sugar gliders and hedgehogs are illegal, among other animals that make sense, like tigers and such. but the reason for this being is, they were bringing in soo many hedgehogs from out of the area and they were mingling with natural wildlife, that they put a restriction on them that only hedgehogs born inside the state, by parents from inside the state could be legally kept with paperwork. but the breeders basically said "screw you" to the restriction and kept bringing in new blood, and it made the lawmaker people angry, so now they banned ALL hedgehogs, period. if anyone with authority even finds out about one, it will be put down immediately and the owner fined.

im not so sure why suger gliders were banned though...why would they be considered dangerous?

It's hard to say Manda, maybe they are concerned they could get free and start a local population and affect a native rodent/squirrel . That is very interesting in Pennsylvania though, add they have some of the loosest laws in the country regarding reptiles. You can basically own anything there. Last I checked, there still weren't any restrictions on venomous species at all there, meaning a 16 year old can go to a reptile show and by a cobra with no questions asked.

As I said, it's almost impossible to figure out the logic behind any of these laws.
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08-02-2012, 04:30 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-02-2012, 04:26 AM)Fishbone Wrote: It's hard to say Manda, maybe they are concerned they could get free and start a local population and affect a native rodent/squirrel . That is very interesting in Pennsylvania though, add they have some of the loosest laws in the country regarding reptiles. You can basically own anything there. Last I checked, there still weren't any restrictions on venomous species at all there, meaning a 16 year old can go to a reptile show and by a cobra with no questions asked.

As I said, it's almost impossible to figure out the logic behind any of these laws.

yea, the reptile restrictions here are little to none. i know a guy a couple cities away that breeds diamond back rattlesnakes O.o theres also always postings about american alligators in the classifieds...theres no restrictions on those either...so they make laws about cute little hedgehogs and sugargliders..but they allow extremely venomous and dangerous reptiles? i think they need smacked -.-
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08-03-2012, 05:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-03-2012, 05:12 AM by Pocs.)
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-02-2012, 04:20 AM)amanda509 Wrote: chinchillas are definitely not illegal here, they are all over the place! theres a few breeders in every town at least -.- not sure about the degus though :/ i just want to know whats so harmful about hedgehogs and sugar gliders, when chinchillas are not illegal? you dont even need a permit for them, i have a friend that has them..

Like I said I was under the belief they were, glad to hear they are not. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind these bans. Where does it end? Soon they will have us buy licenses for small mammals and fish.
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08-28-2012, 06:20 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
I don't understand why hedgehogs are an issue in Pennsylvania at all. Hedgehogs are native to the state, so... Are they worried about overpopulation? Too many hedgehogs coming in makes for big leaps in the population or something?

Also, I can attest to Pennsylvania's loose reptile laws. A friend of the family raised 3 full grown American Alligators and one of my adult cousins raised a Caiman before moving to Florida.
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08-28-2012, 07:00 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-28-2012, 06:20 AM)writer811 Wrote: I don't understand why hedgehogs are an issue in Pennsylvania at all. Hedgehogs are native to the state, so... Are they worried about overpopulation? Too many hedgehogs coming in makes for big leaps in the population or something?

Also, I can attest to Pennsylvania's loose reptile laws. A friend of the family raised 3 full grown American Alligators and one of my adult cousins raised a Caiman before moving to Florida.

There are 16 or 17 species of hedgehogs I think, and none native to the Americas. They are native to europe, africa, and parts of mainland asia I believe. The ones most commonly sold as pets are the african pygmy hedgehogs, or hybridized animals crossed with pygmies.

And the alligators are a great example of the "ban" debate. While I'm not for banning any animal, there are certainly things that would have to be considered before ever trying to own an alligator. There should be some kind of licensing/permitting system for animals of that type. But that requires legislation, inspections, etc... And that is time consuming and costly. So, it's easier to just ban them. The question then evolves to, where is the line on what gets banned?
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08-28-2012, 08:36 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
Oh geez. I can understand bans on some animals such as tigers, but chinchillas? Really?

The whole thing about non-indigenous animals is weird, because in most places, you can't keep indigenous animals as pets. It sounds like they want to ban everything except cats and dogs.

Typical knee-jerk overreaction of some lawmakers! I wonder if they were pressured by PETA types after that incident with the man in Ohio with all those tigers. I know there were lots of "ban all exotic animals" petitions floating around the internet after that. :/
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08-28-2012, 08:56 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
I doubt that ohio incident really had much to do with it, with the exception of bringing some public attention to it. And PETA/HSUS are always behind any ban on pet ownership, whether they started it or not. Its one of PETA's founding principles. I wish I could hear what gets said behind closed doors in political allies when theses bans are proposed and debated by PETA, HSUS, PIJAC, USARK, etc...
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08-28-2012, 11:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2012, 11:32 PM by amanda509.)
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-28-2012, 06:20 AM)writer811 Wrote: I don't understand why hedgehogs are an issue in Pennsylvania at all. Hedgehogs are native to the state, so... Are they worried about overpopulation? Too many hedgehogs coming in makes for big leaps in the population or something?

Also, I can attest to Pennsylvania's loose reptile laws. A friend of the family raised 3 full grown American Alligators and one of my adult cousins raised a Caiman before moving to Florida.

actually, thats why they were banned, they are not native to pa. but seeing how pa has similar weather conditions as their natural habitats, they can flourish in the wild here. at first they restricted them to just animals bred within the state, but breeders brushed it off and kept bringing in new ones, and the people in charge got mad and banned them completely. you cant even have one with a permit. sugar gliders are illegal as well for the same reason, but are not banned, they can be obtained with a permit.

and yea, there basically are no reptile laws here, a child can go to an expo and buy a rattlesnake or gator with no issues at all :/

(08-28-2012, 07:00 AM)Fishbone Wrote: There are 16 or 17 species of hedgehogs I think, and none native to the Americas. They are native to europe, africa, and parts of mainland asia I believe. The ones most commonly sold as pets are the african pygmy hedgehogs, or hybridized animals crossed with pygmies.

And the alligators are a great example of the "ban" debate. While I'm not for banning any animal, there are certainly things that would have to be considered before ever trying to own an alligator. There should be some kind of licensing/permitting system for animals of that type. But that requires legislation, inspections, etc... And that is time consuming and costly. So, it's easier to just ban them. The question then evolves to, where is the line on what gets banned?

i think that theyre not worried about the gators because theres no way they could survive a pa winter, and if anyone gets hurt, its the owners fault. but i do believe you should have some sort of permit to own an animal so dangerous. theres not even regulations on venomous snakes like rattlers and cobras.
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08-30-2012, 12:02 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
I don't know about this one. Where do you draw the line on what is exotic? When it comes from the jungle? when it isn't from your country? when it lives in a vivarium? It's a tough call but ultimately with or without the law people will find a way. I know in England you have to have strict licenses in order to obtain certain animals.
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08-30-2012, 12:26 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
That seems really over-generalized. Hedgehogs seem like a really common pet to me and not "exotic" at all, despite them not being native to the area. It sounds like maybe something happened and they tried to sweep away all possible problems at once by banning them all.

Is there any chance of overturning it?
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08-30-2012, 03:11 AM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
(08-30-2012, 12:26 AM)Jessi Wrote: That seems really over-generalized. Hedgehogs seem like a really common pet to me and not "exotic" at all, despite them not being native to the area. It sounds like maybe something happened and they tried to sweep away all possible problems at once by banning them all.

Is there any chance of overturning it?

maybe it will be overturned in the future, but for right now, pennsylvania is "grounded" from having hedgies lol.
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02-08-2013, 03:10 PM,
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RE: Exotic Animal Ban
I thought I read about exotic snakes being banned from being imported into the United States. Like it has been said, a few bad apples can spoil it for everyone else. Owning exotic animals requires having the proper licensing and permits, and allowing inspections from wildlife officals. Yes, there is paperwork to fill out every year and permits to be paid for, but then if all goes well and your properly caring for your animals, you are in the clear.
But there are people who get these animals with no real knowledge of their care and handling, and put the public at risk of being hurt or killed. These people make it harder for others to get permits or even keep their animals. It is not just regular folks that abuse or do not take care of these exotic animals, some zoo's and wildlife parks are guilty as well. The whole issue needs better reviews so that honest folks do not loose at the expense of a few non-honest people.
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